[00:00:00] Welcome to Planet Spoonie, the podcast for lymies and spoonies healing themselves and the world. In this compassionate, collective space, we talk all about the foundations of truly holistic living, including traditional nutrition, herbal medicine, nature connection, and everything in between. These are the same foundations that helped me rediscover the magic, wisdom, and innate healing capacity of my own body, and the body of the earth.
[00:00:29] Even while living with chronic illness in the time of the climate crisis. I'm your host, Kelsey the Herbalist. Let's dig in. So I'm sitting here with a warm mug of tea. It has been raining all day, which is my absolute favorite weather. I love when it's just like cloudy and a little bit cold and crisp and rainy.
[00:00:49] I, this is just my absolute favorite. So whether you are like me at home with a cozy cup of tea or you are out on a walk, Let's hang out and let's get into it today because I am going to talk with you about vitamin C, collagen health, and how vitamin C is actually really important for maintaining collagen health, particularly in cases of Borreliosis or Lyme disease.
[00:01:17] So Just starting right off, for everyone, there are different things in life that will cause the breakdown of collagen. Of course, exposure to sunlight and just the progression of time as we age, collagen breaks down. So on some level, this is just a very natural part of the aging process. However, there are other things in our life that can increase the rate of collagen breakdown or predispose us to collagen degeneration prematurely.
[00:01:47] So this includes the more obvious things like smoking and consumption of processed sugar but also different chronic conditions and chronic diseases can also really impact and cause increased collagen breakdown. So A few conditions where this is a factor include autoimmune diseases like lupus, Sjogren's, rheumatoid arthritis as well as Lyme disease.
[00:02:11] So more accurately, Lyme disease is called Borreliosis, right? Because, reminder, just like a quick review of Lyme disease is caused by Borrelia bacteria. Borrelia is the name of the genus, right? Harkening back to maybe science classes you took back in the day. Borrelia represents an entire genus of bacteria.
[00:02:36] So that means there are actually hundreds of species of Borrelia. These are all unique species. So Borrelia bacteria cause Lyme disease. More accurately, Lyme disease is called Borreliosis. And this is important because a lot of people think Lyme disease only occurs near Lyme, Connecticut on the east coast, but that's actually completely untrue.
[00:02:58] And that kind of false narrative is Definitely a factor in why so many people like myself go undiagnosed for many years simply because people still think this is it's geographically relevant. Borrelia bacteria, like ticks, are all over the world, and so it's important To consider that. When I say Borreliosis throughout this episode, that's just a primer.
[00:03:22] I am talking about Lyme disease. And I'll repeat that a couple more times, because it's just, I think, something that we all need to talk about. One of my teachers very eloquently pointed this out, and it really has stuck with me. Borreliosis is a condition in which collagen breakdown occurs at a more rapid and extreme rate than it would otherwise.
[00:03:41] And there are a couple of reasons for this. So Borrelia bacteria is one microbe. There are many other microbes that do this as well. But essentially Borrelia bacteria release an enzyme called hyaluronidase. So Hyaluronidase is an enzyme that breaks down hyaluronic acid. Hyaluronic acid is a fluid that hydrates lubricates and cushion cushions joints.
[00:04:08] It's a hydrophilic substance, meaning it attracts water. So this enables hyaluronic acid to really create volume and provide structural support. So it's like the slippery, gooey. Viscous substance in the body, particularly in between joints, surrounding joints. It's also found within the extracellular matrix, and it is in the skin, the eyes the synovium.
[00:04:34] So It's part of essentially the membrane of this specialized connective tissue that lines that inner surface of joint capsules. So it's really important to the health of a number of different tissues in the body, including Joints, skin, eyes, and very interestingly another one of the most hyaluronic acid rich parts of the body is the umbilical cord.
[00:04:59] So essentially, all this to say, collagen is the most abundant protein in the body. It's the most abundant protein found in the extracellular matrix. The extracellular matrix or ECM is the matrix that exists between and outside of all of the cells of our body. So Borrelia, this bacteria that causes Lyme, releases this enzyme hyaluronidase to break down hyaluronic acid to penetrate deeper into these collagenous connective tissues in the body.
[00:05:33] Borrelia releases hyaluronidase, essentially to penetrate deeper into the tissues of the host that has been infected. And it's interesting because, like I said, many other microbes do this. Streptococcus, or strep, staphylococcus, or staph, and chr Clostridium or C. diff. Those are all infectious organisms that also release hyaluronidase.
[00:05:57] Interestingly, bee sting venom and snake venom also utilize this enzyme hyaluronidase to break down collagenous connective tissue and enter into the body, enter into the bloodstream so that it can circulate throughout the body. Spider and scorpion venoms also contain different enzymes including hyaluronidase and in conventional medicine hyaluronidase injections are actually given under the skin as a way to, in addition to other medicines, as a way to increase the uptake of those medicines by the body.
[00:06:33] Hyaluronidase is this really active enzyme that breaks down hyaluronic acid, it breaks down connective tissue, and it enables the bacteria that cause Lyme to penetrate deeper into the body. Hopefully, that all made sense to you. Thank you. Basically, when someone has chronic Lyme or Borreliosis, they have this hyaluronidase continuously being excreted by these bacteria in the body all of the time.
[00:07:01] That is why we see many of the hallmark symptoms of chronic Lyme relate to the eyes, to the joints, to the heart. That's because it's breaking these tissues down. In addition to this, Borrelia has a very intelligent way of hijacking the immune system. It is a very intelligent, wise, and old organism. So it basically hijacks our immune system, makes it ramp up and overreact, and while it slips under the radar, our immune system releases all these inflammatory molecules that essentially can cause tissue damage, especially when this is happening prolonged.
[00:07:39] So On multiple levels, Borrelia bacteria can cause quite a bit of damage to these tissues. Now, here is where vitamin C comes in. Obviously, this creates a non ideal situation. If you are listening to this, if you are someone who is living with chronic Lyme, you probably know the joint grittiness in your knees or your hips or your elbows.
[00:08:05] These are all pretty common joints that get impacted by chronic Lyme. And so this is why it's very common that practitioners, particularly practitioners who are working more in the holistic or functional realm of medicine really like to support collagen production in the body. And that is really to address this damage that's happening to try and mitigate some of this damage as you are working to heal from this infection.
[00:08:35] Here's where vitamin C comes in is, did you actually know that vitamin C plays a major role in the production of collagen in the body? I think this is something that a lot of us don't realize. I certainly didn't used to know this. And again, collagen is this main component of connective tissue and the most abundant protein in the body.
[00:08:57] So vitamin C actually regulates the synthesis or the formation of collagen. It essentially supports building a strong collagen matrix. So this is why you often see vitamin C included as a supplement to support people especially supporting the skin, the joints, the lining of the gut to help promote vascular integrity and microcirculation, as well as for wound healing.
[00:09:23] It's because vitamin C promotes collagen synthesis. At the same time, vitamin C is a super powerful antioxidant. This means A reminder, we talked about this in a previous episode, but essentially antioxidants donate electrons, which allows them to neutralize free radicals, preventing oxidation, a. k. a.
[00:09:46] tissue inflammation and damage. This is really important in chronic Lyme or Borreliosis, as well as many of these other conditions, because with Lyme in particular, the bacteria are triggering this extreme response from the immune system. They're creative, this oxidative inflammatory cascade, while they sneak under the radar at the same time that they're releasing hyaluronidase potentially other enzymes that are breaking down this collagen tissue.
[00:10:13] over a prolonged period, this causes serious damage and a lot of the symptoms that people experience when they have a chronic breliosis or chronic Lyme. So vitamin C for this reason is very commonly given in the management or treatment of chronic breliosis. It's very often taken as an oral supplement or even an IV infusions.
[00:10:37] dosage varies drastically. There are many different schools of thought on this. The recommended dietary allowance is actually quite low. What people often supplementing with for vitamin C is significantly higher than this. People will supplement. The lower range around 500 milligrams up to a couple thousand milligrams daily, but people will even mega dose it and go much higher than this.
[00:11:04] As always, if you are interested in supplementing with vitamin C, this is something that's really great to bring to your healthcare practitioner to discuss your personal situation if you are interested in supplementing, because you can definitely take too much. And everybody is different and it's really ideal to get as much support as you can to figure out if this is a good fit for you, if it's something you're considering.
[00:11:29] Dosages and formats vary quite widely there are buffered forms of vitamin C, there are liposomal forms of vitamin C, so essentially, it's best for you to talk to someone, this is of course not medical advice buffered vitamin C is usually given to those with sensitive stomachs, while liposomal is commonly recognized as the most rapidly inoptimal.
[00:11:51] optimally absorbed. But as always, there are many different schools of thought on this. So this is all just food for thought. Ultimately, though, the most ideal way for us to be consuming vitamin C is through our diet. This is always our first priority. So vitamin C is a really important nutrient to consider when we're thinking about supporting collagen.
[00:12:15] and collagen synthesis in the body. These products can be found pretty much on every supermarket shelf because they have become really popular, particularly in chronic Lyme for all of the reasons and explanations that I just mentioned. This is definitely worth considering supplementing. Supplements are not always necessary.
[00:12:37] They're not always even a viable option. But we are super fortunate to have that option because sometimes supplementation can be, can make a big difference. I do not ever like to use supplements if they're not needed because they can be really pricey. It contributes to the global plastic problem. But if this is something that you actually need.
[00:13:00] Then it can be really supportive. And it's so great that we do have that option to look to supplements when we need them. Especially when we're dealing with something, some kind of chronic condition, particularly chronic infections. It's really known that vitamin C gets depleted in this group of people.
[00:13:17] So it's great that this option exists. As I mentioned, there are many supplement choices for vitamin C, but there's also lots of foods that contain vitamin C. As I was mentioning, in the case of chronic infections, there are just certain nutrients that we know generally get depleted, including in chronic Lyme or Borreliosis, vitamin C, vitamin E, selenium, and carotenoids are all different antioxidants that often get depleted because they're neutralizing just this excess of free radicals and inflammation in the body.
[00:13:52] Very commonly a combination referred to as ACEs and zinc is given in the case of chronic infections. This is a combination of. vitamin A, C, E, selenium, and zinc. Of course, you probably have also heard that bioflavonoids are commonly given with vitamin C as they are thought to help increase absorption.
[00:14:13] And if you really start to notice and look at foods that contain bioflavonoids and contain vitamin C, often these are paired together. So foods that are really rich in both vitamin C and bioflavonoids include Rose hips, calendula flowers, dandelion flowers, hibiscus, citrus, and berries. So it's really neat.
[00:14:38] I think this is why I always encourage everyone to look to foods and herbs first before we start looking to supplements because they look at how these things perfectly pair together. Our environment. and our bodies truly evolved together. And these things tend to all work very synergistically in the body.
[00:14:59] So I think it's just really cool that when we look at the foods and herbs that contain a lot of vitamin C, they also tend to contain a lot of bioflavonoids. And there is also often really interesting research on how these herbs support. collagen, collagen health and synthesis. And another example I didn't mention is Hawthorne.
[00:15:22] Hawthorne, technically it's the berries are a big part of it. But Hawthorne is another one that is rich in bioflavonoids and it's often known. for supporting the heart and is often paired in herbal formulas for heart conditions, cardiovascular situations. And a big reason that it is so effective is it has these phytochemicals, these plant chemicals are metabolized in it, like bioflavonoids that help it to improve and increase the synthesis of collagen.
[00:15:53] So it helps promote that vascular integrity. It helps promote that tissue integrity. within the cardiovascular system. I just think that's really cool the way these herbs and foods really pair together in a synergistic way to support the body. So other herbs that contain necessary building blocks for stimulating collagen production in the body also include nettles, horsetail, and gotu kola.
[00:16:21] Gotu kola the scientific name for gotu kola is centella asiatica. It actually stimulates hyaluronic acid production by our own body. So it stimulates that endogenous internal production of hyaluronic acid. So it can also be really supportive for connective tissues and collagen synthesis. And this is one of the common traditional uses for this herb.
[00:16:46] Interestingly, one other herb that is, again, with many of these, they're often used for other reasons. You're seen as supporting other systems. We can get caught up and characterizing an herb in one particular way and not realizing it acts on so many other levels. So like we often think of Hawthornefor the heart, we think of Gotu Kola for the brain and as this like secondary adaptogen to port support the mind and cognition and mental performance.
[00:17:19] But for both of these, they're also really great support for collagen synthesis and for the joints and for any tissues where collagen is a major component. Interestingly, the other herb that I was about to say is echinacea. And echinacea, again, what do we all think about when we think of echinacea?
[00:17:37] Oh, it's an immune stimulant or immune tonic depending on the species and the part and how you are consuming it. But interestingly, echinacea is also a hyaluronidase inhibitor. Reminder, again, hyaluronidase is that enzyme that Borrelia bacteria release to break down collagenous tissue and penetrate deeper into the host body and then cause all these kinds of really unpleasant symptoms that we might experience.
[00:18:05] So echinacea, specifically Echinacea angustifolia, inhibits this enzyme. It inhibits hyaluronidase. That's really fascinating to me. This is something that I experienced myself in my own course of treatment with Lyme. I experienced a huge shift in my own joint pain when I took echinacea.
[00:18:26] That is not necessarily going to be true for everyone. As a reminder, not medical advice, just all food for thought. There's some really fascinating research into the hyaluronidase-inhibiting properties of echinacea, but we often think of echinacea as the support for the immune system. But if we look to indigenous wisdom and the scenarios in which echinacea was utilized historically by many different indigenous peoples like the Lakota, we see that they incorporated echinacea in situations like rheumatism or joint pain.
[00:19:03] They also utilize echinacea for snake bites. My grandparents actually this is why it's always good to know scientific names, but my grandparents growing up, it took us a while to realize we were talking about the same plant, but they did not know this plant as Echinacea. They knew it as snake root, right?
[00:19:21] And it does have a tap root, but this is a plant that historically people would apply as a poultice onto the site of a snake bite. And as I said earlier in this episode, What does snake venom have that allows it to penetrate into circulation? Hyaluronidase. So echinacea inhibits that enzyme that allows that snake venom to penetrate in the body.
[00:19:45] I would definitely go to the hospital if I got a snake bite still, but it's, I think that is so fascinating and so curious, and there is so much to be explored there in the medicinal capacity. But ultimately, it also goes to show that Indigenous wisdom and traditional use in my mind and in many people's mind but in the lineage, that I've been trained in, Indigenous wisdom is the most important.
[00:20:11] guIde that we can look to traditional use the ways that people worked with plants for thousands of years Always has the most long standing evidence bake for how a plant Is most effectively used and incorporated And echinacea is one example of that the scientific literature Explaining what's happening on a molecular level came into the picture Much, much later, much more recently, and it's super fascinating, but I think when we can look to indigenous wisdom and traditional use of plants, that really is the best source of information we have on how to work with a plant.
[00:20:52] And I think it really also can direct, where we want to be looking at these plants in clinical research and in scientific research because we want to understand how things work the way they work and why did indigenous peoples work with plants in this way. That's a little bit of an aside, but it's always, it's just, I think, really important to talk about.
[00:21:12] Lineage is really important to acknowledge especially in this case. Ultimately, all of that to say, echinacea and gustafolia root can be another really great support for collagen health and supporting collagen synthesis, supporting hyaluronic acid levels in the body. in the case of Borreliosis or chronic Lyme because it's inhibiting that enzyme Hyaluronidase that the bacteria releases, allowing itself to penetrate deeper into host tissues.
[00:21:46] Hopefully that was clear. I repeated myself intentionally. Because I know this is a lot of information I'm including in this episode, but Hopefully you all find it super interesting Just like I do Because it's important to understand the mechanisms of what's happening in cases of Lyme disease or Borreliosis And why we really want to be making sure that we're supporting the joint, supporting collagen synthesis supporting it by including vitamin C and bioflavonoids in our diet and Additionally, another really important and wonderfully supportive food that contains plenty of amino acids to support collagen synthesis is bone broth.
[00:22:31] Bone broth is ideally always going to be made with whole animals or Scraps that nobody else wants like the feet, fins, eyes, and organs and all the bones. You can also add all kinds of veggie scraps. You can add eggshells, onion peels, carrot tops, beet tops. You can add whole herbs like calendula flowers and nettles and astragalus rue, reishi mushroom.
[00:22:59] There are so many herbs that we can add to our broth and scraps that we can add to the broth to really get the most nutrition out of it. We always want to be looking towards a local and pasture raised animals above any other parameter. I know there's lots of labels on food. I will definitely do a whole episode kind of breaking some of those down so that everyone can understand what that means.
[00:23:21] But local and pasture raised as well as sustainably wild caught or line caught, these are the most important things to be looking for because they ensure really the health and the welfare of the animal. And, it's more important that we know our farmer and how they treat and value their animals than there being some arbitrary label on, on this product that we don't understand.
[00:23:47] The welfare healthy animals means we're going to be making a healthier broth, and it's going to be better for us. Bone broth is just another really important food to be considering and including when we are living with kind of chronic Lyme or any kind of degenerative or inflammatory chronic joint condition because it just contains all of these wonderful amino acids that can support collagen synthesis and there are definitely Absolutely.
[00:24:17] a lot of health claims that are made out there about bone broth, about all of the herbs that I've mentioned, about vitamin C supplements, many of these other supplements, about collagen supplements. And what I will say to that is, as I said before, food first, food comes first, herbs come first, supplements are secondary.
[00:24:36] We don't always need them. And it is always best to get. guidance from a healthcare practitioner if you want to incorporate supplements, but there are a lot of claims made about these supplements. And when it comes to collagen in particular, it's, if something says Oh, this collagen is going to be good for your skin and your hair and your nails or whatever, in theory, sure.
[00:24:58] But it's really more about this is containing a myriad of amino acids and the body is going to use those however it sees fit because our bodies are very wise and intelligent and they're going to take those amino acids or that vitamin C, that bioflavonoids, and they're going to utilize them in whatever way.
[00:25:20] our body needs. So it's not necessarily going to do whatever the label says. It's, our bodies are going to do do what's needed. So while vitamin C can support joint health in the sense that it supports collagen synthesis, it could be used in entirely different ways in the body. It just, it totally depends on.
[00:25:42] Your unique needs and cellular metabolism and inflammation levels and in the case of Borreliosis or chronic Lyme, you probably already know that everyone who lives with chronic Lyme gets impacted very differently. Lyme can disseminate, Borrelia disseminates in very unique ways in the body.
[00:26:05] That's why certain people experience it in certain joints or organ systems. It can really be different for everyone. So the point is more just that including this these herbs and foods that are rich in vitamin C and bioflavonoids and amino acids, in the case of bone broth, are really serving to just provide your body with these basic building blocks so that your body can do what it needs to do.
[00:26:35] And in the case of chronic Lyme, Your body might do any number of things just depending on how this is uniquely manifesting for you So again, I know I've said it a million times but it is always really a good idea to talk to a health care practitioner about any changes that you want to make and I just want to recap one more time a few of the herbs and foods that you can incorporate if you are living with chronic Lyme that can be really supportive.
[00:27:03] So all of this is to say that Consuming vitamin C, bioflavonoids are, consuming vitamin C and bioflavonoids is a really wonderful way to support your body in living with chronic breliosis. It can really help neutralize some of the damage and the inflammation that's occurring and just provide so much support for collagen in your body, which is really heavily impacted by this condition.
[00:27:36] One last recap of the different foods and herbs where you can find high levels of vitamin C Bioflavonoids and other nutrients that support collagen synthesis include Rosehips, Calangela, Dandelion, Hibiscus, Citrus, Berries, Hawthorn, Nettles, Horsetail, and Gotu Kola. And of course, Bone Broth. I Hope that this was really helpful for you and that you learned a bit about the nature of why Lyme disease impacts the joints, why it impacts the cardiovascular system, and how it actually is able to spread it throughout the body so effectively.
[00:28:22] I didn't even talk about the structure of this bacteria, which is in somewhat of a spiral shape. It allows this bacterium to be very mobile. So if you think of this little spiral shaped bacteria, it releases this enzyme and then essentially is able to drill, for lack of a better term, deeper and deeper into host tissues by penetrating through this extracellular matrix that exists between all our cells.
[00:28:49] So it really is a very advanced bacteria. That is able to be very mobile within the tissues of the body and this function is what really enables it to become so pervasive if it is not treated. So all of this to say, I hope that you really enjoyed today's podcast. I hope that you learned a lot.
[00:29:12] I hope this wasn't too confusing. I will be talking about this so much more in the future. So if this kind of went over your head, or there was a little too much science in there for you, that's totally okay. I will be offering more courses talking about this. So if you really want to get More of that education and understanding about what's going on and how you can make an impact in your body and with your clients or patients.
[00:29:40] If you are seeing people with chronic Lyme then keep an eye out for those because I love talking about this stuff and Working with foods and herbs and everyday practices that we can do to really support the body and coping with this disease and really restoring the terrain and making our bodies less habitable for these microbes.
[00:30:03] And of course, if you need deeper one on one support because you are living with chronic Lyme or Borreliosis or another chronic condition and you need help just getting your shine back again, getting the basic foundations of health in place so that with every day you know you are setting yourself up for success, helping your body to heal and really Shifting to a place of acknowledging this innate intelligence and healing capacity that your body has because I so truly believe our bodies are wired to heal.
[00:30:39] Our bodies always are wanting to heal and we just have to get the right Foundations in place so that can happen. So if you need that deeper one on one support, click the link in the show notes to head to my website and book a one on one call with me. I have openings for new clients beginning in the new year, so shockingly that is only a little over a month away.
[00:31:04] So definitely do that if you need some more help and any of this sounded interesting to you and you just need a little bit more guidance. I would love to hear from you. So please go ahead and do that. And I think that is all. Again, I really hope you enjoyed today's podcast episode. I know that these tools will truly help you feel more resourced and supported in your everyday life.
[00:31:26] The goal, as always, of the Planet Spoonie podcast is to help you feel empowered, embodied, and more connected to yourself, your community, your heritage, and your local ecosystems. I truly believe. This information and this episode is going to help you get there. Vitamin C is important for collagen synthesis.
[00:31:48] Just if there's one takeaway you get from today, let it be that. Remember that when we reconnect to our bodies and to nature, healing is truly inevitable. Our bodies ecosystems we inhabit. And just like the earth, our bodies know how to heal.